Virus in SPS release - English Amiga Board

I found some bootblock viruses in IPF disk officially recognized by SPS. Mastered with virus?!

Code:

0011 - Espionage - The Computer Game
Espionage.ipf
=> NorthStar 2 Bootblock

Code:

0206 - Backgammon
Backgammon.ipf
=> SCA Bootblock

Code:

0712 - The President is Missing
PresidentIsMissing,The.ipf
=> Byte Warrior (DASA) Bootblock

Code:

1246 - Chase H.Q. II: Special Criminal Investigation
ChaseHQII-SpecialCriminalInvestigation_Disk2.ipf
=> Lamer Exterminator Bootblock

Code:

1255 - Ooze - Als die Geister mürbe wurden
Ooze.ipf
=> PvL Virus Protector v5.0 Bootblock

Code:

1304 - Beam
Beam.ipf
=> NorthStar 2 Bootblock

Code:

1589 - Legend of Faerghail 
LegendOfFaerghail_Disk3.ipf
=> Byte Bandit Bootblock

Code:

1612 - StarRay
StarRay_BootDisk.ipf
=> SCA Bootblock

Code:

2159 - Astatin
Astatin.ipf
=> Sector 1086 is destroyed by The Lamer Exterminator virus (No file damage)

Code:

2669 - The Shortgrey
Shortgrey,The_Disquette0.ipf
Shortgrey,The_Disquette1.ipf
Shortgrey,The_Disquette2.ipf
Shortgrey,The_Disquette4.ipf
=> SADDAM disk-validator

Code:

2768 - Zombi
Zombi.ipf
=> Lamer Exterminator Bootblock

Code:

2804 - Chariots of Wrath
ChariotsOfWrath.ipf
=> Sector 1369 is destroyed by The Lamer Exterminator virus (No file damage)

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Indeed. I discussed this with IFW years ago and my opinion was they should have the viruses cleaned off them before creating the final IPF file, but IFW wanted them stored as they were mastered.

I still stand by that too. The only one that I knew about at the time was Chase HQ 2: SCI.

If someone accidentally boots off those disks they'll get infected, and none of those viruses would prevent the original game from running with a clean bootblock installed instead.
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I'd have mastered both with and without ... after all TOSEC is filled with so many Alts why shouldn't SPS have a few :-)
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Too bad the originals can not be clean. it looks unprofessional ...

Updated first post
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How crap is that! Though I guess stuff like that isn't exactly unusual now either... wasn't it some Acer OEM HD images 2 years ago that were found to include a virus? As well as TomTom's a few years before.

I have to say I do agree with original decision though... these absolutely should represent the original (albeit unfortunately virus infected) disks...
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I also agree, but we must warn users of risks...
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Well, speaking for TOSEC you know we have a [v ] flag... :-)
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mai? where are you? we need you! If it is not too late for the next release... :-)
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Originally Posted by Crashdisk:
mai? where are you? we need you! If it is not too late for the next release... :-)

Sorry, there are still some problems/issues, how to maintain SPS sets, especially if we would begin to add [v] flag.

-multiple files in one single zip.
-files inside zips fits not TNC.
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Code:

Zombi (1989)(Ubi Soft)(FR)[v][2768]

There are already certain in any case...where is the problem for the other release?
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Originally Posted by Crashdisk:

Code:

Zombi (1989)(Ubi Soft)(FR)[v][2768]

There are already certain in any case...where is the problem for the other release?

Originally Posted by :
Legend of Faerghail v2.0e (1990-07-24)(Rainbow Arts)[1589]

in this case, how could it be done properly?
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if a game is an inseparable set. the [v] flag can be used for the set without changing the subset. no?
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Originally Posted by Crashdisk:
if a game is an inseparable set. the [v] flag can be used for the set without changing the subset. no?

LegendOfFaerghail_Disk3.ipf
contains the virus, but not disk 1 and 2.
If i would name the relevant multi-zip, it would be misleading.
The solution would be to rename IPFs inside zip to TNC style.
If so, it would be:
1. a huge job
2. i am not sure, if it would annoying SPS guys.

In TOSEC forum was also proposed to create single zipped sets, instead of current multi zipped sets in SPS release.
This would cause another problem,
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Yes, this is why one of my recommendations was to have the IPF images as single-file rather than multi-file (no different from ADF images, or any other >1 disk images in fact).

IMO there's no reason to have IPF images grouped up/unrenamed in this way, and in fact goes against TOSEC/TNC convention.

The only reason is historical and/or blindly copying CAPS convention, and (again in *my* opinion) that's not a good enough reason...
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Originally Posted by Codetapper:
Indeed. I discussed this with IFW years ago and my opinion was they should have the viruses cleaned off them before creating the final IPF file, but IFW wanted them stored as they were mastered.

I still stand by that too. The only one that I knew about at the time was Chase HQ 2: SCI.

If someone accidentally boots off those disks they'll get infected, and none of those viruses would prevent the original game from running with a clean bootblock installed instead.

The reasons are still true today. The IPF is the representation as the disk was mastered. If you are using e.g. WinUAE, you can enable writing and install a fresh bootblock. Unlike disks that were damaged during mastering and won't work without fixing them (in which cases we exactly do that), these disks deliver historical proof how little precautions were taken for replication.

Again, these images are easy to fix when using them, the IPF stores the state you'd get as if you'd just bought the game.
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I wonder where the creators of the viruses are these days lol ...
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I'd still prefer to have this marked as virus infected, maybe release an alternative clean IPF of those disks.

If you have a Kyroflux you could write the IPF back and install the clean bootblock, but if you're using IPFs in an emulator you're not going to have a clean IPF file - only a saved disk image state combined with the IPF which is not ideal imho. Boot of that game then switch to another write enabled disk and bingo, infected disk.
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We could ask Kaffer to generate clean unofficial IPF :-)
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Don't even need to completely re-generate the IPF. Just search-and-replace the virus bootblock, the two sectors of which will be verbatim in the IPF, with standard bootblock, and fix up a CRC.
Oh, and bork some of the IPF header values to make it an obviously 'unofficial' IPF. That seems only polite.
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Originally Posted by mr.vince:
Unlike disks that were damaged during mastering and won't work without fixing them (in which cases we exactly do that), these disks deliver historical proof how little precautions were taken for replication.

I am, quite frankly, dismayed by this attitude. Personally, I find it very discouraging.

I have to say that, although the warts and all approach is an honourable one, I think it would be a mistake to give unofficial IPFs the opportunity to become the preferred versions in this instance, or indeed in any instance for whatever reason.

Just my 2 cents.
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I vote FiX them :-)
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Originally Posted by Methanoid:
I vote FiX them :-)

+1 :-)
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I vote no (sorry Crashdisk).... representing the disk 100% accurately is only the right thing to do. If there were/are 'errors' in the original disk then that's that.

I also don't think it's a great idea to widely spread 'fixed' IPFs either... provide info to users of how to remove the malware, sure... but prowler is right - you know what will happen, these 'proper' IPF images will get widely distributed as the 'corrected' game...

Anyway... just my 2cents (as a non-hardcore Amiga community member and TOSEC old timer).
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Only IPFs created by SPS guys are valid for TOSEC preservation!
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Originally Posted by prowler:
I am, quite frankly, dismayed by this attitude. Personally, I find it very discouraging.

I have to say that, although the warts and all approach is an honourable one, I think it would be a mistake to give unofficial IPFs the opportunity to become the preferred versions in this instance, or indeed in any instance for whatever reason.

Just my 2 cents.

IPF's are 1:1 copies of original games so the decision to keep the virus bootblocks is perfectly fine IMHO. There's nothing dismaying about that! Most users keep their disks write protected anyway so the virus bootblocks won't do any harm.
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Originally Posted by Cassiel:
I vote no (sorry Crashdisk)....

Sorry for what? :-) I just want to inform users of the presence of viruses (with [v] flag). Nothing more!
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in general, why changing anything in IPFs, removing viruses and so on, in case of a virus, convert to ADF and remove the beast.
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I knew I would open a can of worms by posting my opinion above. :-)

Thanks for all your replies! :-)
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back to the meaning of the thread!
Possible solution:
-renaming IPFs inside multi-zip to TNC style
-single-zip renamed IPFs
this means, allowing double crc32 then.
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Originally Posted by Crashdisk:
Sorry for what? I just want to inform users of the presence of viruses (with [v] flag). Nothing more!

Typing failure... didn't mean you, meant the other disagreeing. /slaps for Cassiel

Originally Posted by mai:
back to the meaning of the thread!
Possible solution:
-renaming IPFs inside multi-zip to TNC style
-single-zip renamed IPFs
this means, allowing double crc32 then.

Well you know what I think....

No different from ADF though right? ADF = IPF on *this* subject?
i.e.
Blah (2000)(Foo)(Disk 1 of 2)(US).adf (CRC 123456A) + Blah (2000)(Foo)(Disk 2 of 2)(US).adf (CRC 123456B)
Blah (2000)(Foo)(Disk 1 of 2)(EU).adf (CRC 123456C) + Blah (2000)(Foo)(Disk 2 of 2)(EU).adf (CRC 123456B)

How do you treat INDIVIDUAL ADF disks atm? Can't remember what the answer was (and we never explicitly defined in TNC). Dupes or no dupes? Surely what's right for ADF is good for...?
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I like the idea - "if it's messed up to start with, let that be the memory we remember it by"
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So (and you can correct me if I'm wrong here), these games actually came from the original duplicators with viruses installed? They actually went into the shrink-wrap and went on sale with viruses?

'Cos if they didn't, then you can't claim that these (IPF images) are exact images of the original disks, can you?

D.
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver:
We could ask Kaffer to generate clean unofficial IPF :-)

Yes, because having more than one IPF of the very same disk, one original, and one _modified_, is what the community needs. Then have someone correct spelling... wait, I am going to answer that below...

Originally Posted by prowler:
I am, quite frankly, dismayed by this attitude. Personally, I find it very discouraging.

[...]

Just my 2 cents.

IPFs are 1:1 representations of the ORIGINAL media. As sold in the stores. We are not fixing spelling mistakes, we are not making things politically correct. We don't take out Svastikas in Rocket Ranger or put them back in again. We don't translate stuff, we don't correct factual errors in games dealing with history. That's how those games shipped...

Originally Posted by Methanoid:
I vote FiX them :-)

So, go ahead. Start another collection. Call it "nearly preserved" or "slightly modified". It will be more original than "true" cracks in Tosec, but less original than IPFs.

Originally Posted by StingRay:
IPF's are 1:1 copies of original games so the decision to keep the virus bootblocks is perfectly fine IMHO. There's nothing dismaying about that! Most users keep their disks write protected anyway so the virus bootblocks won't do any harm.

All I can say is that back in the day I would check every disk inserted for viruses. I never had a game with a virus, but if it had had a virus, I'd have not removed it on the original media. Instead I would have disinfected the copy.

Originally Posted by mai:
in general, why changing anything in IPFs, removing viruses and so on, in case of a virus, convert to ADF and remove the beast.

I like the idea very much.

Originally Posted by Dunny:
So (and you can correct me if I'm wrong here), these games actually came from the original duplicators with viruses installed? They actually went into the shrink-wrap and went on sale with viruses? 'Cos if they didn't, then you can't claim that these (IPF images) are exact images of the original disks, can you?

You are a clever guy. :-) Yes, these games shipped with viruses installed, I must assume by accident. Just like you do spelling mistakes by accident, or you forget to include the correct samples for the music (like for Agony). Would you want to correct that as well?
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For an easier understanding, just compare software with pictures, which need to be restored from time to time. No picture restorer would paint a fifth finger to a human hand appearing on the picture, just because it would "normally" be correct that way. He would only want to undo what's clearly signs of the times, i.e. recover the original (possibly "bad") state of the picture. Even if the artist himself admits he made a mistake like forgetting to paint a fifth finger, no one would want to see the original artwork being modified, as in the end it means loosing the original artwork forever, very much like loosing the (historical) fact that a certain game has been published with a virus on its disks.

Think of software preservation as of software history documentation, including 1:1 copies of all the data, including copy protection, including mastering mistakes, including bugs, including everything else actually on disk when initially sold, even if it might be considered bad by most people.
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One question remains for me regarding those games, where currently version only with virus is known.
Exists maybe a second batch, where the virus was removed(by developer/publisher) before mastering?
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Originally Posted by mr.vince:
You are a clever guy. :-) Yes, these games shipped with viruses installed, I must assume by accident. Just like you do spelling mistakes by accident, or you forget to include the correct samples for the music (like for Agony). Would you want to correct that as well?

Of course not, and you've obviously not read my post. Where did I say that the actual shop-bought images should be modified?

Be civil.

D.
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Originally Posted by Dunny:
Of course not, and you've obviously not read my post. Where did I say that the actual shop-bought images should be modified?

Be civil.

D.

I did. You said

Originally Posted by :
'Cos if they didn't, then you can't claim that these (IPF images) are exact images of the original disks, can you?

and my answer was that you were right.

I continued answering to the requests above to modify these, but it wasn't your request to do so... Just happens when you reply to a bunch of posts. No insult. Really. I mean it. :-)

Originally Posted by mai:
One question remains for me regarding those games, where currently version only with virus is known.
Exists maybe a second batch, where the virus was removed(by developer/publisher) before mastering?

Could be they did a running replacement but for those IPFed with the virus, we only have one or more dumps of this very version. The moment we'd get a replicated disk without virus, this would be IPFed as another version as well.
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Originally Posted by Feltzkrone:
For an easier understanding, just compare software with pictures, which need to be restored from time to time. No picture restorer would paint a fifth finger to a human hand appearing on the picture, just because it would "normally" be correct that way. He would only want to undo what's clearly signs of the times, i.e. recover the original (possibly "bad") state of the picture.

I think that's a terrible example to be honest. I liken this more to Picasso paints a picture and while it's delivered to the art gallery, is dropped and a piece falls off the corner. You can either place the piece back into the painting as it was originally or leave the chunk missing.

By leaving viruses on the disk you are not preserving the original painting at all, just the "arrived at the gallery damaged version".
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